MSNBC- "The Ed Show"- Transcript: Immigration

Interview

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For more, let me bring in Congressman Jim McDermott of Washington and Steve
Clemons, MSNBC Contributor and Editor-at-Large for The Atlantic.
Gentlemen, good to have you with us tonight.

STEVE CLEMONS, MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR: Great to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Let`s go back. Congressman, we`ll start with you. What is a new
phase here? How did you take that comment from Jeh Johnson?

REP. JIM MCDERMOTT, (D) WASHINGTON: Well -- he`s, obviously, speaking the
truth. Here you`ve got 300,000 people of the Department of Homeland
Security, 275,000 are declared important enough to be -- they have to stay
on the job but they`re going to get paid. So next Friday, or next
Saturday, or next Monday or whenever, they`re not going to get a paycheck.

So you`re putting people through a lot of agony. We ultimately (ph) know
that the Republicans are going to cave in. There is no question.

SCHULTZ: Well -- so, is this another defeat the President at all cost
moments for the Republicans to...

MCDERMOTT: That`s...

SCHULTZ: ... put immigration on the table to muddy the waters for
defending the country?

MCDERMOTT: Even Lindsey Graham, Ed, says that we had to let the courts
working out and funded agency and let it go on and do its job. Americans
don`t care whether its Republicans or Democrats, they want the government
to work.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

MCDERMOTT: And what we`re saying is, we`re going to shutdown FEMA.

Now, you`ve got snow 10 feet deep in Massachusetts and you`re saying, we
don`t want the emergency cable have (ph) any money.

SCHULTZ: It also affects the coast guard.

Steve Clemons, does this make us vulnerable if we don`t get it funded?
What is it mean from a security standpoint?

CLEMONS: We just had threats against the Mall of the America in Minnesota.
We have concerns about sleeper cells in the United States. That`s just the
beginning, the tip of the iceberg of the kinds of things the Department of
Homeland Security is responsible for around the country.

You know, it would be nice, Ed, if Rudy Giuliani would come on the show and
question the patriotism of those GOP leaders that are undermining the
security of the nation and have him ask them, do they really love the
United States. That would be a nice turn around.

SCHULTZ: You know, I`d just think that Rudy Giuliani has diminished
himself so much by this. What the media is missing and me included, I
should have done the story tonight -- go back to September 10th...

CLEMONS: Right.

SCHULTZ: ... 2011 and see how popular Rudy Giuliani was in this town
before the attack...

CLEMONS: But the point...

SCHULTZ: ... and he would still -- well, we just leave that there. But
the point he`s making I think is well-taken. He is trying to just focus
(ph) the country on a number of fronts. So that`s not the point...

CLEMONS: And I think the point you`re making -- and the point, Ed, is
that, we have many people in Congress that are willing to sort of walk away
from a responsible stance about the security of the nation over a small
bowl of issue that`s being dealt within the federal courts.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

CLEMONS: It`s outrageous. And when you talk about in this climate,
people`s love of the United States, their degree of patriotism, I think
that focus needs to fall directly on those people that are threatening to
defund the DHS.

SCHULTZ: Congressman, President Obama addressed the economic impact of the
DHS shutdown today, just a moment ago. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Unless Congress acts one
week from now more than 100,000 DHS employees, board of patrol, court
inspectors, TSA agents, will show up to work without getting paid. They
all work in your states. These are folks who -- if they don`t have a
paycheck, are not going to be able to spend that money in your states. It
will have a direct impact on your economy and it will have a direct impact
on America`s national security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The President today speaking to the Governors across the country,
there at the White House, they`re all at the White House. He, of course,
is having a conference with them.

What does this do state finances? I mean, it would seem to me,
Congressman, that some Governors might connect with people such as yourself
not, you know what I`m saying. I would talk to the Representatives of
Washington and say "Hey, wake up on this deal".

MCDERMOTT: But, you know, Ed. If you try and put yourself in the shoes of
the people who were being impacted by this, we found that we had two coast
guards (inaudible) a man and a wife were both in the coast guard. They
aren`t going to have money to pay their mortgage on the end of the month or
next month.

Now, these people are working to protect us all over the place and we say
to them, you`re not worth it. We`re not going to pay you. We`re going to
use you as a pawn (ph) in our fight with this president.

That is not fair to the government employees that are going to affected by
this and this going to effect money for states. I mean, people don`t have
salaries, they can`t buy things, they don`t.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

MCDERMOTT: . pay the sales tax. It runs right down the road. I mean, it
is a stupid and their going to ultimately back down.

SCHULTZ: Do you believe that Steve. Do you think their going to back
down?

CLEMONS: I don`t know. I know that I -- when I hear people like John
McCain and Lindsey Graham making so much sense and John Boehner saying,
hey, you don`t believe me, we`re going to shut it down.

I mean at certain point, John Boehner won`t have credibility any longer
unless he does pursue the shutdown. And I agree with you, I`m probably
with the 13 percent because I think the White House is saying, bring it on.
We would love you to carry the responsibility for putting this people out
of work and endangering the security of the United States.

SCHULTZ: We just say -- can we find an issue that we can isolate where the
Congress can work together. I mean, if we can`t do it on the security of
the country. What can we do or not?

CLEMONS: Right now...

SCHULTZ: This is -- Steve, isn`t this the best example of dysfunction if
it does shutdown?

CLEMONS: Yeah. I mean it`s so sad to me because, you know, I was a
director of Nixon Center years ago, I share that with people. I work for
the Democratic Center during the Senate.

There was a time when people over a great number of issues much more
(inaudible) than today, would find a pragmatic middle, the way to move the
nation forward, not be gridlock on everything.

And the problem we`re seeing is not necessarily between Democrats and
Republicans. It`s between Republicans and Republicans. They have inner
caucus fight which is so profound in-depth and it`s.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

CLEMONS: ... it`s so deadly I think and so devastating for the United
States, on not just this issue but issue after issue after issue.

SCHULTZ: And finally, Congressman, your comment on immigration -- you just
play out on the court says it right now. So why would the Democrats
filibuster this?

MCDERMOTT: I think what they`re dealing with is that, you can`t get
anything out of the House. You got 46 members in that Freedom Caucus who
can stop John Boehner from doing anything. And they simply -- there`s no
reason to work on this issue if the House is not going to back down from
this but absolute shutdown.

SCHULTZ: We`ll let me use TPP as an example. There is just a bunch of
Republicans in the House that are going to vote against Fast Track because
they don`t want to see the president have any authority at all. I mean, I
think that this -- for this probably has something to do with it too, your
thoughts quickly on that.

MCDERMOTT: It`s always. It`s been for the last two and a half years.
Don`t allow Obama to win anything.

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

MCDERMOTT: And that`s been the bottom line. And Mitch McConnell came on
and the first thing he said when he became majority leader, "There will be
no shutdowns in the Congress".

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

MCDERMOTT: Well, we`ve already had one and now we`re heading for the
second one.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Jim McDermott, Steve Clemons, great to have you with
us gentlemen. Thanks so much.

CLEMONS: Thank you, Ed.

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